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	<title>Comments on: Whiny Liberals &#8211; 1, UND &#8211; 0</title>
	<atom:link href="http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 15:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shamrock, I was certainly not intending that. You actually summed up in a word what I needed a paragraph to (unsuccessfully) convey. Perception is the key here, if the Sioux name doesn&#039;t conjure negative images or bad memories for the Sioux people, then let it be. 

I was trying to use the Irish to juxtapose the issue. 

It seems here that the Native Americans have been told by well meaning people that they should be offended because of the different perceptions, and this has led to the current situation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shamrock, I was certainly not intending that. You actually summed up in a word what I needed a paragraph to (unsuccessfully) convey. Perception is the key here, if the Sioux name doesn&#8217;t conjure negative images or bad memories for the Sioux people, then let it be. </p>
<p>I was trying to use the Irish to juxtapose the issue. </p>
<p>It seems here that the Native Americans have been told by well meaning people that they should be offended because of the different perceptions, and this has led to the current situation.</p>
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		<title>By: DutchShamrock</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DutchShamrock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 12:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So what I should take from this is that since I have Irish heritage I should be offended by Notre Dame.  The knickname &#039;Fighting Irish&#039; should not be at best a source of pride, but a disparaging slur towards a misunderstood people.  

I never really looked at the Fighting Irish name as a misrepresentation, or as any representation, of the Irish.  I guess I have as much of a stake in that name as the Sioux have in UND&#039;s knickname.  And when I see &#039;Fighting Sioux&#039; and the logo, it doesn&#039;t conjur up images of savagery or war.  Just like Notre Dame doesn&#039;t invoke thoughts of drinking, brawling or bombing.  In the end, if the Sioux people are truly offended the name should be changed.  This shouldn&#039;t come from outsiders who are worried about what other outsiders think or feel about a name.  The name belongs to the Sioux, they should be comfortable with how they are perceived... I just hope that they and other liberals understand exactly what the true perception is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what I should take from this is that since I have Irish heritage I should be offended by Notre Dame.  The knickname &#8216;Fighting Irish&#8217; should not be at best a source of pride, but a disparaging slur towards a misunderstood people.  </p>
<p>I never really looked at the Fighting Irish name as a misrepresentation, or as any representation, of the Irish.  I guess I have as much of a stake in that name as the Sioux have in UND&#8217;s knickname.  And when I see &#8216;Fighting Sioux&#8217; and the logo, it doesn&#8217;t conjur up images of savagery or war.  Just like Notre Dame doesn&#8217;t invoke thoughts of drinking, brawling or bombing.  In the end, if the Sioux people are truly offended the name should be changed.  This shouldn&#8217;t come from outsiders who are worried about what other outsiders think or feel about a name.  The name belongs to the Sioux, they should be comfortable with how they are perceived&#8230; I just hope that they and other liberals understand exactly what the true perception is.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1741</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My favorite part of this debate is that when Ralph Engelstad (notorious Nazi sympathizer and cantankerous old coot that he was) offered to build UND it&#039;s new arena he did so with the caveat being that UND revert back to their old logo, similar to that of the Chicago Blackhawks (previously, they had changed their logo.) When there was money on the table, UND and its officials were pleased to flush their liberalism and political correctness down the loo. In return they got was is easily the nicest arena I have ever stepped foot into. Now that Engelstad has passed away, and the arena has been built, they climbed back aboard their moral high horses and wagged their finger at those who would dare support the continuation of this as their logo. The behavior of UND officials in this case, is one of the worst examples of hypocrisy run amok I have seen in a very long time. For shame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite part of this debate is that when Ralph Engelstad (notorious Nazi sympathizer and cantankerous old coot that he was) offered to build UND it&#8217;s new arena he did so with the caveat being that UND revert back to their old logo, similar to that of the Chicago Blackhawks (previously, they had changed their logo.) When there was money on the table, UND and its officials were pleased to flush their liberalism and political correctness down the loo. In return they got was is easily the nicest arena I have ever stepped foot into. Now that Engelstad has passed away, and the arena has been built, they climbed back aboard their moral high horses and wagged their finger at those who would dare support the continuation of this as their logo. The behavior of UND officials in this case, is one of the worst examples of hypocrisy run amok I have seen in a very long time. For shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is the word &quot;fighting&quot; the problem here? Would a compromise to just the Sioux be appropriate. If not, how do Native Americans view the names of cities such as Sioux Falls and Sioux City?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the word &#8220;fighting&#8221; the problem here? Would a compromise to just the Sioux be appropriate. If not, how do Native Americans view the names of cities such as Sioux Falls and Sioux City?</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1737</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looked at the &#039;other side&#039; of the debate and from B.R.I.D.G.E.S comes this FAQ:

&lt;strong&gt;Why is the use of American Indian people as mascots and symbols offensive?  &lt;/strong&gt;

The continued use of American Indian people as mascots, logos, and symbols is wrong. It denies a race of people the basic right of respect. By tolerating the use of demeaning stereotypes, we desensitize and objectify people. When using a race of people as nothing more than mascots and symbols, we are teaching the next generation of non-Indian children that it is okay to participate in culturally abusive behavior.  

&lt;strong&gt;Why is it okay for schools on reservations to use &quot;Indian&quot; logos and nicknames?  &lt;/strong&gt;

Only American Indian people have the right to choose how they are portrayed. If a reservation school chooses their school name, it is their perogative. Native people should have the right to say how their image is projected to the outside public.  

&lt;strong&gt;How does the continued use of &quot;Fighting Sioux&quot; harm Native American people?  &lt;/strong&gt;

By portraying Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota students on campus as the &quot;Fighting Sioux,&quot; you are participating in a misconception of American Indians as being inclined towards particularly &quot;war-like&quot; and &quot;violent&quot; behavior. This denies the Native students on campus their sense of pride, integrity, and place in a unique cultural heritage. It transforms them into dehumanized &quot;things.&quot;  

&lt;strong&gt;Aren&#039;t there more important issues for Native people to be concerned about? &lt;/strong&gt; 

There is nothing more important than one&#039;s sense of identity and self-worth. A person&#039;s self esteem is shaped, to a great extent, by how they are portrayed by others. This is especially true with children.  

&lt;strong&gt;Why do some American Indian people support the use of &quot;Fighting Sioux&quot;?  &lt;/strong&gt;

American Indian people, like Euro-American people, are not monolithic. People&#039;s perspectives vary. However, virtually every national American Indian organization supports a change.  

&lt;strong&gt;Can we find a common ground on this issue?&lt;/strong&gt; 
 
UND administration&#039;s strategic plan calls for more educational forums emphasizing cultural awareness and sensitivity. Increasing racial awareness is always a step in the right direction. However, until the symbol and nickname are removed the plan is no more than broken promises and empty, hypocritical rhetoric.  

&lt;strong&gt;Why aren&#039;t American Indian people honored by the use of &quot;Fighting Sioux&quot;? &lt;/strong&gt;

Saying it is an &quot;honor&quot; does not make it one. American Indian people have never asked for this. Honoring a race of people because of their &quot;war-like abilities,&quot; gives the impression that Native people are relics, existing only in the past.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looked at the &#8216;other side&#8217; of the debate and from B.R.I.D.G.E.S comes this FAQ:</p>
<p><strong>Why is the use of American Indian people as mascots and symbols offensive?  </strong></p>
<p>The continued use of American Indian people as mascots, logos, and symbols is wrong. It denies a race of people the basic right of respect. By tolerating the use of demeaning stereotypes, we desensitize and objectify people. When using a race of people as nothing more than mascots and symbols, we are teaching the next generation of non-Indian children that it is okay to participate in culturally abusive behavior.  </p>
<p><strong>Why is it okay for schools on reservations to use &#8220;Indian&#8221; logos and nicknames?  </strong></p>
<p>Only American Indian people have the right to choose how they are portrayed. If a reservation school chooses their school name, it is their perogative. Native people should have the right to say how their image is projected to the outside public.  </p>
<p><strong>How does the continued use of &#8220;Fighting Sioux&#8221; harm Native American people?  </strong></p>
<p>By portraying Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota students on campus as the &#8220;Fighting Sioux,&#8221; you are participating in a misconception of American Indians as being inclined towards particularly &#8220;war-like&#8221; and &#8220;violent&#8221; behavior. This denies the Native students on campus their sense of pride, integrity, and place in a unique cultural heritage. It transforms them into dehumanized &#8220;things.&#8221;  </p>
<p><strong>Aren&#8217;t there more important issues for Native people to be concerned about? </strong> </p>
<p>There is nothing more important than one&#8217;s sense of identity and self-worth. A person&#8217;s self esteem is shaped, to a great extent, by how they are portrayed by others. This is especially true with children.  </p>
<p><strong>Why do some American Indian people support the use of &#8220;Fighting Sioux&#8221;?  </strong></p>
<p>American Indian people, like Euro-American people, are not monolithic. People&#8217;s perspectives vary. However, virtually every national American Indian organization supports a change.  </p>
<p><strong>Can we find a common ground on this issue?</strong> </p>
<p>UND administration&#8217;s strategic plan calls for more educational forums emphasizing cultural awareness and sensitivity. Increasing racial awareness is always a step in the right direction. However, until the symbol and nickname are removed the plan is no more than broken promises and empty, hypocritical rhetoric.  </p>
<p><strong>Why aren&#8217;t American Indian people honored by the use of &#8220;Fighting Sioux&#8221;? </strong></p>
<p>Saying it is an &#8220;honor&#8221; does not make it one. American Indian people have never asked for this. Honoring a race of people because of their &#8220;war-like abilities,&#8221; gives the impression that Native people are relics, existing only in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1736</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David, you make a good point. This isn&#039;t a quick fix issue. Just like electing a Democrat President didn&#039;t make the terrorists our bffs, liminating the nickname won&#039;t mean that kids that have been going without meals on one of the reserves will suddenly have a full fridge and pantry. It just means that the do-gooders won&#039;t see something that reminds them about it. For all their moaning and wailing, they are just looking for a quick fix to soothe their guilty conscience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you make a good point. This isn&#8217;t a quick fix issue. Just like electing a Democrat President didn&#8217;t make the terrorists our bffs, liminating the nickname won&#8217;t mean that kids that have been going without meals on one of the reserves will suddenly have a full fridge and pantry. It just means that the do-gooders won&#8217;t see something that reminds them about it. For all their moaning and wailing, they are just looking for a quick fix to soothe their guilty conscience.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://illegalcurve.com/2009/05/15/whiny-liberals-1-und-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 20:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.illegalcurve.com/?p=12505#comment-1734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good call Kyle.  I agree that the name really isn&#039;t the issue and won&#039;t solve a problem like racism.  

If you take it to the conclusion those in the liberal left would like and assume the name is changed to North Dakota Fighting Bisons (I apologize in advance to all Bisons who are offended by that name), what then?  Does Grand Forks become a more tolerant society simply because the name was changed.  Not likely.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good call Kyle.  I agree that the name really isn&#8217;t the issue and won&#8217;t solve a problem like racism.  </p>
<p>If you take it to the conclusion those in the liberal left would like and assume the name is changed to North Dakota Fighting Bisons (I apologize in advance to all Bisons who are offended by that name), what then?  Does Grand Forks become a more tolerant society simply because the name was changed.  Not likely.</p>
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